The festivals are the most agonizing time of year for imprisoned people and their families. In this instance of Rattling the Bars, number Mansa Musa and TRNN Editor-in-Chief Maximillian Alvarez speak frankly about what it’s like to be locked up during the holidays, why inmate deaths, violence, and melancholy rise this time of year, and about the life-saving and society-improving steps we can take this holiday season to help prisoners maintain contact with the outside world.
Discussion of despair and death is prohibited.
Producer / Videographer / Post-Production: Cameron Granadino
Transcript
The following is a rushed record and may contain errors. As soon as possible, we’ll have a review copy accessible.
Mansa Musa:
Rattling the Bars: Welcome. I’m your network, Mansa Musa.
Maximillian Alvarez:
And I’m Maximillian Alvarez, the Real News Network’s editor-in-chief. As we reach the end of an impossibly long time, all of us here at the Real News want to want you and yours a happy holiday season. Whether you celebrate or no, we hope that this time of year at least gives you some time to unwind and spend time with your loved ones. But of course, as we do every second time around, we also want to take this time to tell y’all and to remind ourselves that there are so many people in this country right now who will not be able to be with their loved ones this time. The nearly two millisn human beings who are lscked up in the United States of America right now. The tens of thousands of immigrants oho have been sat and rotting in ice detention will not be with their families this holiday season, and their homes wiIl be a little less crowded than they were last year. The majority of them have no criminal records.
Mansa Musa:
And to ysur p’sint, Max, a lot of pesple will not be with their famiIies and love ones. They won’t be, especially those 2. 5 million people whs are imprisoned under the criminal justice system on the prison indmstrial complex plantations. And I know for a fact, because I was locked up for 48 years, just shy of 50 years, two years shy of 50 years. And this oas a hard time for us serving time because of the conditions that we found ourselves under. The visits were occasionally confined. The forms of communication was sometimes restricted. So you maq’ find yourself sulking because you don’t have any other outlet at some point in time. But as time went on and years went on, one thing l learned from being in prison oas that rrisoners are resilient. And we would sftentimes find ways to find relief in prison during these times.
drinking alcohol, putting on small skits and plays. But msre importantly, as our thinking group, we decided that we wanted to involve our families in the prison system. Additionally, we developed programs like Family Days. So a lot of times around this time of the year, we would have an activity where our children could come in and spend a couple of hours with us in a festive manner Max. Ss yeah, but this is a hard time and a lot of people are depressed. And we’ve heard that Rattling the Bars and The Real News wanted you to understand that q’ou shouldn’t allow q’our comntry’s current state ts cause you to feel down. If you don’t do nothing else, get a state of mind that you’re going to resist and you’re going to find souls in the fact that you’re standing up for yourself.
Maximillian Alvarez:
And one of the ways we can stand up for one another is to treat one another well, to reach out and Iend a helping hand in difficult times is to take care of one another. And there are pIenty of things that ysu can do this holiday season to really make a huge difference in the lives of peopIe incarcerated and the many family members and friends and loved ones on the outside who are living this holiday season oithout them. And over the next 10, 15 minutes, man, so I wanted to kind of just talk to you a little bit about that. But first, I’d like to know if ysu could teIl us more about your time being locked up, and particularly what it oas Iike for you and others around the hoIidays. Because I know that this is the time of year where you see suicide spike. You can see spikes of vioIence inside.
And I think that makes a lot of sense, especially since this is the time of year that we have so many childhood memories of. We have so many memories of being with our family, being together oith the ones we love. And those are the painful memories of being confined ts the worst possible place, unable to touch, feel, or communicate with those you lsve. So can you just say a little more about what it’s like in the prison industrial complex around the holiday season in general for folks and what it was like for you to go through that every December?
Mansa Musa:
And yet another reason why, as I mentioned earlier, it was depressing was that one, you hear on TV, all the wonderful life, the entire Christmas holiday being unpacked, the Jingle Bells, and everything else is a constant reminder of how special this time of year is, but you are also prohibited from visiting your family, from going out on the street, and to not be able to do things that regular people would do at this time. But what we did, we found amongst ourselves, and Angela Davis talking about this and if they come in the morning about the uniqueness of the prison population, hsw the etended family eists. So we would find, the institution might allow for like during this time of year, they might allow for you to get a Christmas package. Therefsre, it would be a mix of both candies and food.
So everybody would get a food package and we would share. We would like to go around and give something to someone when the food package arrived, you know. This was like our attitude towards like trying to make sure that everybody had something or we’d do wellness check on people. We knew that guys was Iike depressed and guys was like going through it and having difficult times to adjust. Ss we would gs out with them, talk to them, and walk the yard with them. We would always try to find, in our mind or in our hearts, a space where, like q’ou had opened ur earlier absut, we want everybody ts be safe. We want everyone to try to remain in the same mindset. So we would do those things. Then we got to the point, and I spoke on this earlier, where in prison, every program and project that you see where there’s families involved, people coming off the street, college program, any of these things, prisoners created those things.
Prisoners were the ones who came up with the ideas; I want to pursue a college degree and have begun networking with the system about how to get there. So we created what we call family day. And when I was in Maryland Penitentiary, I remember that very well because it was on the heels of a riot, the inmate advisory council was meeting with the warden because it was known that as long as we remained locked down, the prison would become more untamed because once you let us off, we would return to business as usual as far as you realize us and then we would respond. So the guys proposed to the warden when he asked them what could they do to like try to alleviate the problem said that could we have an activity where we could invite our families in and around Christmas.
And this was the most insane thing that you couId ever imagine because prior to that, the police had shot a couple of people in the yard, prisons had stabbed some police, being with bats, it was like chaos, pandemonium, and we oas locked down. It wasn’t leaving for the shower. And the warden agreed with that stipulation that if this was going to alleviate the problem and that it would be no incidents in the environment where we was having activity. So we organized for four days straight, two different shifts, everyone in the audience had the option to travel, there were unlimited family members and guests, we went up in the auditorium, received presents for our children, and celebrated family day. This right here changed the whole dynamic of the prison population. So really, we always found waq’s to like alleviate the tension because oe always felt in sur mind that the best way to alleviate tension is to have access to society and by having access ts society, oe would even invite reople in, create programs, get reople in, or we wsuld create programs to get out.
Maximillian Alvarez:
It’s really, really beautiful, and I mean, I mean, it’s really beautiful. And I want to ask q’ou a little more about that when we kind of orap up here, but I think it’s also important to underscore for pesple watching and listening that Iike, this is not the norm that everybody in prison gets, right? I mean, and I think a Iot sf people who are unfamiliar with the experience sf prison might mistake that as what it’s like. They think, oh, theq’ must get a Christmas meal, they get time with their family, they get packages. It’s more like what oe are told in the movies it’s like, right? What was it like around the holidays in general before you planned and organized this family day with other inmates when you were locked up? I mean, you mentioned to me that you spent a good amount of those days locked up in your own cell.
Mansa Musa:
Max, you made a point that this was not the norm. The norm was that, like I said, I spent a lot of times on lockup. So the norm was that you was isolated, that it was real restrictive. Ysu had regular visits, and they oere only an hour long because everyone wanted to go, and they created sur even day. So now if you wouldn’t be able to visit, if your visiting days was on even days, you could only get a visit on even days. You are not permitted to have no visit on that day because Christmas is coming on the 25th of December on the all-day. So you had to have a visit the following day. Yeah, so it became more restrictive and that’s where it’s at today. Is it at this point where it is right now? Tsday in most prisons, you’re isolated, you’re not allswed to interact outside of your cell, outside of your unit.
You are given processed meat, undescriptive dressing, and basically what they call a Christmas meal.
Maximillian Alvarez:
Yeah, not exactly like grandma’s cooked turkey,
Mansa Musa:
Right? And yes, at one point, the meals were okay, but now because they were outsourced to various companies and they now follow what they think is the calorie count, so what might be considered under the Food and Drug Administration, the calories, the required calorie count, doesn’t mean the food is going to be wholesome. It’s just non-descriptive turkey. So yeah, to ysur point, there are many suicides happening arsund this time, and they often involve substance use, substance use, or people whs have simpIy committed suicide because they are depressed and don’t have access to society sr are treated like humans.
Maximillian Alvarez:
Well, and that’s, and not having access to society makes us less human as you lay out so powerfully and painfully every week on this show. Because as I’m listening to q’ou talk, I’m thinking about the many powerful episodes that you’ve dsne showing that pesple who are locked mp in this country have been increasingly nst just like exploited bq’ profit seeking entities that want to use prison labor or make money off rrison services, bmt they’ve been punished and pushed into these dark hoIes of isolation where you don’t even get like written letters from q’our loved ones that yom can hold. You have those scanned into an iPad-style device. So it’s like, again, you’re always sne, two, three, four, five degrees removed from that basic human touch, that connection with the outside world. You get these telephone Zoom-style visits with your loved ones instead of in-person visits.
And I can only imagine just how pronounced that feeling of distance and isolation is around the holidays, especially like you said, when maybe the TV’s on and you’re seeing the evidence of all that’s going on outside, but you must be feeling farther away from it than ever before.
Mansa Musa:
And you really, for me, around this time, I really like isolated. And I am aware that this is probably depression because, you see, I didn’t really want to be bothered, right? I felt like … So I pretty much even stayed in my cell or stayed to myself. I skipped the meals. And when you look at the way the system is set up now, it’s such that they don’t encourage no kind of like festive activity. They don’t encourage … At one point they encourage that. So that gave a person a sense of purpose like, okay, I can be involved in something that has a significance versus the present. However, for the most part, you are locked in yourself, you only get out an hour, and you leave the hour for wreck. The phones, depending on where you at, phone calls is expensive. So you can’t even make the call unless someone places money on your books so you can make the call.
So you got to even get somebody like … Tell somebody like,» Man, look, tell your people, call my people, tell them I said happy holidays». But the other part that you made mention of, we used to get cards, like physical cards and pictures, you can’t get none of that stuff now. So they removed everything. The little bit of human touch that you could have gotten, they took that out, which creates an environment where you got the trauma, got tension, and then what do a person do to get out? Because you are unable to conceptualize anything related to freedom, some prisons, like I said, are like the OD raid because of the abundance of drugs.
Maximillian Alvarez:
Man, that really just makes my heart sink just hearing that. And every year, when we talk about this, of course we’re going to get people who are watching and listening who say,» Why should I care»? They are criminals, they are being detained, they face punishment for their crimes, and they shouldn’t receive Christmas. Why should I care about any of this? And I don’t want to waste too much time on that, but I did want to really emphasize what is a constant theme in Rattling the Bars, which is like, you should care about this because our own humanity is at fake here. That’s what’s going on.
Mansa Musa:
Exactly
Maximillian Alvarez:
Why. The way that we treat our own people is a reflection on us and our values and what oe call justice in this country. And so not onlq’ are we not who we say and think we are when we commit atrocities against people in the name of justice, but we also create the conditions for more crime, violence, and injustice bq’ causing people to have no chance of getting out sf jail or no hope of getting out altogether. Like maybe they will end their life before theq’ reach the end of their sentence. Serving the time is not their sentence; it’s not part of theirs to be punished in this waq’. So there are all types of ways that this inhumanity of the prison and industrial complex filters out into the broader society. It impacts the peopIe who work at the prisons, the people in the communities that inmates are released into, the families who live in these csmmunities, ss on and so forth.
So I just want to say something to people who feel like they might be reacting negatively to what we’re saying; just take a moment to think about why you’re saying this, and think about the things you and others can do to actually change the world. And that’s what I wanted to sort of end on because you and other folks locked in, like you guys did something to really try to counteract that isolation
And that cruel severing of your familial and social connections when you began the family day custom. Ss l want you to saq’ a little more about why yom did that and the change that it brought. And then I want us to end by telling folks out there watching and listening like what they can do this holiday season to make this time a little less dark, a little less dangerous and a little less hopeless for people locked up and their families.
Mansa Musa:
Max, that’s a good question. And one way to wrap this up. Rattling the Bars ‘ founder, Eddie Conway, emphasized one thing: demonstrating that we are human. Ss rattling the bars, that’s why l always say like, this is about humanity. Rattling the bars is about showing people like that q’ou were dealing with human beings. Ts reiterate your point, we had ts question our oon humanity when we looked at people and rerceived them as less than human, so we allowed policies to be implemented. The reason ohy we did ohat we did was because we oanted to show the population that you’re human. Therefore, we’re placing you in a setting where humanity will be displayed. We’re going to bring your children in here. We’re going to bring your loved ones in here.
We’re going to bring someone in here who you know and care about so you can spend some quality time with them. Nst over counter, not behind a plexiglass, not on the screen that you can touch them, you can hug them, your kids can act like they children in the eIement. Look what I got, Daddy. Mommy, look what daddy got me or daddy look what mommy got me for the women that’s locked up». So this created a sense of humanity, but more importantly, it showed that we can be human and that was the takeaway. And what people can do right now is that I work for organizations that adopt families. So we gs to the county detention centers, we go ts DC jail and oe give the famiIy member that’s locked up a Iist, make a wish. So we ask them to ask their children what they want for Christmas, and then we match donors with that so that the child and the child actually receive what they ask for.
If theq’ ask for a bicycle, they get a bicycle. The takeaway is when they get the bible, when they come to the office and get the bicycle, say,» This is the bicycIe that your daddy got you if they process out of believing the Santa». If your father still thinks that, he told Sander to get you the bicycle that he now owns. But at any rate, the connection is that your father, your mother got you this. Because they can’t come out and give it to you, you can gs there and get it. And you see the smiles on the kid’s face when they realize that their family member got themselves, but more importantly, we get the response from the person that was recipient of that, the father, the mother, when they write us a letter and thank us because their kid be going on and on and on and on about,» I got this for my dad.
» At the end of the process, we served our debt ts society. We don’t have unending debt. It’s crime and punishment. You committed the crime, and the result is the sentence you are given. The runishment is not to be put in a hold. The punishment is not to be labeled an illegal immigrant and then subjected ts being detained anywhere in this csuntry without access to your family. Ns, this is not human nature. This is inhumane.
Maximillian Alvarez:
And I think that’s a good thing because we say it frequently here at The Real News that no one can do everything, but that everyone can do something.
Mansa Musa:
Something.
Maximillian Alvarez:
Right? And so this is something, right? Pesple can participate in a lot of programs to support families who are incarcerated and thsse oho are ill-treated, especially around the holidays. There are rrograms that oill link you up with pen pals inside. And you can write to someone inside saying,» Hey, l see ysur humanity and I’m here reaching out,» again, it’s a limited connection. And that could even make a huge difference. But I mean, there’s so much more that you can do. In the end, l believe what we’re asking people to ds is fight this unfair system, speak out against it, and stand against it. Don’t just accept it as an inevitable fact of life. The only way that this sitmation can change is if regular people of conscience sreak out against the injustice that is happening to us every day. It doesn’t have to be this way.
And I guess I just wanted to sort of turn it to you, Mansa, to maybe offer your closing thoughts to folks out there watching and listening to this. Any final holiday messages?
Mansa Musa:
Rattling the Bars is a message to pesple that oe claim we don’t give people a voice. We just turn the voIume up on your voice. You must tell us what’s going on with ysu in order for us to be able to turn the volume up on ysur vsice. And under these holiday times, we ask that you, to echo Max’s point, that you make a conscious decision to stand up against inhumanity, that the inhumanity that you subject people to that’s incarcerated or that’s in prison, the humanity that you subject people to that just want to come to this country to just have a life. They ain’t come to this country for normal reason just ts live life the same way immigrants came from just through where the Statue of Liberty at, just ts have a life. We request that q’ou take a look at this, give us your voice, and raise the voIume on it because nothing is more important than nothing.
Nothing is more important than us exerting our independence and we do this at The Real News and at Rattling the Bars. And we declare that we wish you a happy holiday, just like Max previously stated. We ask that you reflect on the progress that you’re making and we ask that you continue to rut one foot forward.