Ghada Karmi: Gaza shatters coexistence myth

This special episode reflects on the impact of recent military operations in Gaza on efforts toward Palestinian-Israeli coexistence, and examines the political and international dynamics that have shaped decades of conflict and displacement. In observance of the Nakba anniversary, Marc Steiner speaks with Dr. Ghada Karmi about the destruction in Gaza, the challenges to political solutions, and the sense of despair felt by many on both sides.

Guest:

Ghada Karmi was born in Jerusalem and was displaced with her family during the Nakba. She trained in medicine at Bristol University, founded a British–Palestinian medical charity in 1972, and served as an Associate Fellow at the Royal Institute for International Affairs (Chatham House). She is the author of several books, including the memoir In Search of Fatima and One State: The Only Democratic Future for Palestine-Israel. Her work addresses Palestinian history, displacement, and possible political futures for the region.

Credits:

Producer: Rosette Sewali

Studio Production: Cameron Granadino

Audio Post-Production: Stephen Frank

Transcript

The following is a preliminary transcript and may include errors. A corrected version will be posted when available.

Marc Steiner:

Welcome to The Marc Steiner Show on The Real News. I’m Marc Steiner. This program is dedicated to the Nakba, the mass displacement of Palestinians in 1948. Since October 7, 2023, the Gaza conflict has led to substantial loss of life and destruction; the show notes that around 73,000 Palestinians have been reported killed, including over 20,000 children. Today I speak with Dr. Ghada Karmi about the current situation, its implications for coexistence, and prospects for the future.

Ghada Karmi:

Thank you. I’m glad to join the conversation.

Marc Steiner:

You have written and spoken about Palestine for many years. From your perspective, how would you describe the current moment between Israel and Palestine?

Ghada Karmi:

I agree this is one of the most serious periods I have seen. In some respects it feels worse than the Nakba I experienced as a child. For decades many Palestinians held on to the hope of returning home and expected change over time; now I find myself increasingly worried that those hopes may be slipping away.

Marc Steiner:

Historically some groups advocated for coexistence or a binational future. Do you think the idea of a shared future remains viable?

Ghada Karmi:

For many years I supported a single democratic state where all residents have equal rights. That vision included the return of Palestinians to their homes and the possibility that settlers could remain as equal citizens if they accept full equality. However, recent developments and public attitudes among many Israeli Jews — including widespread support for military operations — have made it much harder for me to imagine Palestinians being asked to accept the status quo and live alongside people who support such policies.

Marc Steiner:

Are you saying you no longer see a realistic path to a shared civic future?

Ghada Karmi:

I’m increasingly doubtful. The central issue is settler colonialism: a population that arrived from elsewhere and established dominance over an indigenous people. Asking the dispossessed group to accept equal status with those who displaced them, especially amid severe oppression, is not a realistic moral or political proposal today.

Marc Steiner:

Given that assessment, what outcomes do you see as possible? How could the current trajectory be altered to prevent further displacement and violence?

Ghada Karmi:

It’s difficult to see a clear path under current circumstances. Several external and internal changes could alter the situation. Internationally, a withdrawal of political and military support for Israel from major Western powers — particularly the United States — could significantly change dynamics. Escalation with regional actors, such as a wider conflict involving Iran or Hezbollah, could also change the balance, as could major shifts in Israeli society, including declining willingness to sustain perpetual conflict. Additionally, growing international public pressure and movements in favor of Palestinian rights may influence outcomes. But each of these scenarios has uncertain likelihood and potential consequences.

Marc Steiner:

Do you think Israel’s current policies jeopardize its own future as well as Palestinian futures?

Ghada Karmi:

Yes. The ongoing military approach and the deepening conflict undermine prospects for a stable, peaceful future for all people living in the region. If a political settlement is not found, both Palestinians and Israelis face an increasingly precarious future.

Marc Steiner:

How do narratives of victimhood and historical trauma influence current behavior and policy?

Ghada Karmi:

Historical trauma can shape identity and politics in complex ways. In some cases, communities that have experienced persecution may adopt narratives of exceptionalism or superiority, which can justify harsh policies toward others. This psychological and political dynamic helps explain how people who were once victims can also become perpetrators or supporters of oppressive policies. Recognizing these mechanisms is important when considering long-term solutions.

Marc Steiner:

What are the main steps you believe are necessary to move toward peace?

Ghada Karmi:

For me, the essential elements include acknowledging the core injustice of displacement and ensuring a meaningful right of return for Palestinians. Peace requires clarity about the problem and honest public discussion about history and rights. Without addressing displacement and the structural inequalities that sustain it, any peace framework is likely to be unstable.

Marc Steiner:

Thank you, Dr. Karmi. I appreciate your time and perspective. We’ll link to your work and look forward to further conversations about your writing.

Ghada Karmi:

Thank you. It was a pleasure to speak with you.

Marc Steiner:

Thanks again to Dr. Ghada Karmi for joining us. Production credits: Cameron Granadino, Stephen Frank, Rosette Sewali, Kayla Rivara, and the team at The Real News. Please share your feedback at mss@therealnews.com. I’m Marc Steiner — stay engaged and take care.